Curse

SPARTACVS · Jul 14, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

What I have been saying. I am tempted to res my "a possible fix to the guild wars economy thread" which has in it the idea that the trader should always buy for 85-90% list price and why. I will post the link but someone else res it.
Here it is: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=29418

Yes that is a sloution. And a real world one in fact. In real world, what do you prefer? 50% profit on a 100$ item or 5% profit on a 1 000 000$ item? The buy at low price, sell at high is what nerf the prices. Any mechant in real life will buy a item if it's in demand. If he offer 1 gold, none will sell to him. Therefore, he won't have to sell and thus won't make profit.

So the problem here is not % margin. It's that there is no margin (or a crappy one). Wheather it's 50%, 60%, 70% or 80% is important but less than the fact that, at first, there should be such a buy/sell margin.

Also, peoples are right. Making the game much harder for new players is not fair. And it contredicts the goal of the game: "not based on items but on skills and teamplay" because it create a huge difference between riches and poor players.

Watersong · Jul 14, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

See, the thing is, some of us don't want to play the game... AGAIN. Some of us didn't get a lot of items during "normal" play. I barely got anything. I was the odd man out.

Some of us found the missions boring, repetetive, frustrating, and fruitless.
Frustrating because of parties.

Some of us don't want to go through that again, especially when there's an alternative that's almost the same.

Farming. It's boring, repetetive, not so frustrating, and better yet... It's not fruitless.

If not for gold or items, then for experience. I try different builds so that I can see what works best for me. I can't very well do that without farming something for the refund points. I can't get any new skills because I'm out of skill points. It takes forever to get the experience to re-level 20. I can't just play the game again for that, I'd only be getting experience for the latter part of the game.

It took me a while to finish the game. A few weeks, I think. Am I to spend another few weeks to inch my way to getting a guild hall? A better item? Etc?

I don't know, I just don't believe ANY of the points you made, sorry.

Mr_big · Jul 14, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Let's get back to the basic issue. That's is whether or not the update help or beginning to help the general buy-to-use population. Go and check prices of ectoplasm and shard today and compare them to the spikes and inflated prices (15-20k for ectos) caused by hoarders who were making profit off the rare material traders in the last several weeks.

wiz12268 · Jul 14, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I guess the basic question everyone has to ask themselves is "why do I play the game?". Or why did you but it in the first place?

If the game is boring and not fun then I guess you need to stop playing it and find another game.

Also look at the games you have laying around the house. Why are you not playing them anymore? Probably because you "beat" them. That is why you don't play them.

If it takes 6 months to play your way to something you want, is that better than finishing the game in a week and never playing it again? (PvE of course)

If it is "boring" playing a game to get something, then people have lost sight of what actually playing a game is all about.

If you want it all and want it now I think Diablo is better suited, you can go to Ebay and buy all the best equipment and just run through the game with ease.

As for "hoarders" , of course people have to hoard. Not many guys are going to get 45 shards or ectos in a short time frame. I doubtthey are horading to inflate the price, they are hoarding until they get enough.

These prices are more a result of US holding favor a lot less these days. US used to have favor for days on end, now they hold it maybe 6-7 hours a day, and only late late at ngith or early morning hours on the east coast, when most normal people are sleeping. The ectos and shards are the one true commodity that is being priced on supply and demand. I ahve no problem with that side moving.

drizzt134 · Jul 14, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiz12268

I guess the basic question everyone has to ask themselves is "why do I play the game?". Or why did you but it in the first place?

If the game is boring and not fun then I guess you need to stop playing it and find another game.

Also look at the games you have laying around the house. Why are you not playing them anymore? Probably because you "beat" them. That is why you don't play them.

If it takes 6 months to play your way to something you want, is that better than finishing the game in a week and never playing it again? (PvE of course)

If it is "boring" playing a game to get something, then people have lost sight of what actually playing a game is all about.

If you want it all and want it now I think Diablo is better suited, you can go to Ebay and buy all the best equipment and just run through the game with ease.

awesome explanation... thank you...

Dyeeo · Jul 14, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I say we screw the traders and outsource to cantha.

Sammiel · Jul 14, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I fail to see how the traders are hurting casual players. Before a casual player was forced to deal with the farmer's in town who had the patience to sit in town for hours and spam items. Now the disparity is removed. In fact if the player so desires they can still buy off players. That option was never taken away. However now there is less of an information disparity between a casual player and the farmer. The casual player can always go to the material trader or rune trader to get a current snapshot of the maximum price of an item for the current time. In essence it allows comparison shopping. The player can either accept the conveinance of buying an item off the trader and take the higher price, or they can attempt to shop around for a better price direct from another player.

Most of this whining about falling rune prices is simply whining about the price gouging arising from a knowledge disparity being eliminated. Boo hoo.

Also, all your red herrings about communism are idiotic. This isn't communism. There is no entity forcing you to redistribute your wealth. I know its fun to try and sound like you have some modicum of knowledge, but really its just making you look foolish.

Dyeeo · Jul 14, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

No. This is why everyone is complaining. Nobody wants to sell to the trader anymore because the trader pays crap. Therefore because there is no flow of stuff to the trader from players, prices rise. Even though prices rise, the trader still buys for crap so people go and spam district 1 and 2 to get a price around the trader. Repeat this process and you have a problem.

Dazzler · Jul 14, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Yes, I am not against the traders and I don't whine about the rune prices falling--the traders provide a mechanism to efficiently price things based on current buying/selling patterns.

My complaint is that since the most recent update, the traders are no longer paying fair and reasonable prices when you sell something to them. No matter how expensive the item is or how much in demend it is, they continue to pay crap. For Example, They are selling Obsidian Shards for 4100gp, but if you try and sell them one, they only giveyou 100gp. ONE HUNDRED. How can that be considered a fair price? I tried to sell some leather, which costs 50gp + materials to make at a crafter, and I was only offered 42gp per leather. wtf? It used to offer anywhere from 50 - 150 depending on the current supply.

As others have said, this will cause less people to sell to the trader and more trades will be player to player, essentially taking the trader out of the loop, people will continue to buy from the trader though. The trader will see the dwindling supply and raise his sell price (but apparently not his buy price). People will quit buying from him and look to buy from players. But since players use the Trader's selling price to set their price, they will in turn raise their prices. Now player prices are again "close" to trader prices so buyers will go back to the Trader. Repeat until 1 wood plank costs 500g and then tell us there is nothing wrong.

In such a scenario, players will initially be forced to go acquire their own supplies via adventuring or farming as they cannot afford to buy them anymore. Money ceases to have value since everything is inflated.

In comes bartering. Expect new WTT spams to appear where players that need material X start offering to trade X for Y.

hydrak · Jul 14, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Traders are being reset after updates. Is the rare material trader still offering 100gp for an obsidian shard? I don't think so.

tanwarv · Jul 14, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Have sell prices stabilized to even 50% of buy prices at least for any of the following: dyes, runes, rare materials?

Last I was able to see, buy prices were similar to what they were pre-patch, but sell prices were still hosed. If this is what was intended, then Anet should never have even put the NPC traders in the game in the first place... I for one will end up playing the game far less because I really don't want to forced to trade to other people for commodities.

EDIT: The the person that said that traders are being reset after updates... I will believe that if the trader buy prices would continue to rise to their pre-patch levels. Right now, the only pattern I've seen is a continuous decline in buy prices with a continuous steady increase in sell prices. This makes absolutely no sense economically.

Garrett · Jul 14, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Yeah the trader buy prices are still way down. Last I saw (few min ago), steel ignots: 50g!, globs of ecto: 100g! horrible.

enzymepopper · Jul 14, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

I suspect the Traders do autostock a bit at certain times in the previous version. But it did not autostock fully. I suspect when the stock price is high, the Traders autostock a bit to help curb the price a bit. And when the stock price is low, I even suspect the Traders may remove a bit of the existing stock to float the price up a bit. But it's an unproven suspicion.

I also think the Traders adjust the prices periodically instead of instantly. Meaning they adjust the prices every half an hour or so instead of having the prices fluctuate whenever someone buys or sells. Because I have bought and sold hundreds of rare materials and only saw a single price change. And I saw the second price change about half an hour or so later.

So if there's only say 100 ectos in the market. I could keep on buying them for say 3k each. After I bought up all 99 ectos, the price of the last ecto will still remain 3k until the next round of price adjustment which could be half an hour away. This is how I make my money. I didn't have to work with the market because in a sense, I get flat rate from all my purchase/sells. Buying ALL the Parchment in stock for 400 G each. Wait for half a day, then sall ALL the Parchment back for 600G each. As long as I do it between each price adjustment, I won't have to worry about the price changing when I'm doing my trades.

enzymepopper · Jul 14, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammiel

Also, all your red herrings about communism are idiotic. This isn't communism. There is no entity forcing you to redistribute your wealth. I know its fun to try and sound like you have some modicum of knowledge, but really its just making you look foolish.

Isn't what the Devs did to the Traders that omnipotent entity that is forcing us to redistribute our wealth, try to reduce the number of wealthy by removing their main source of income, and an attempt to bring rich Stock traders down?

Malchiel · Jul 14, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Yes, I am not against the traders and I don't whine about the rune prices falling--the traders provide a mechanism to efficiently price things based on current buying/selling patterns.

My complaint is that since the most recent update, the traders are no longer paying fair and reasonable prices when you sell something to them. No matter how expensive the item is or how much in demend it is, they continue to pay crap. For Example, They are selling Obsidian Shards for 4100gp, but if you try and sell them one, they only giveyou 100gp. ONE HUNDRED. How can that be considered a fair price? I tried to sell some leather, which costs 50gp + materials to make at a crafter, and I was only offered 42gp per leather. wtf? It used to offer anywhere from 50 - 150 depending on the current supply.

As others have said, this will cause less people to sell to the trader and more trades will be player to player, essentially taking the trader out of the loop, people will continue to buy from the trader though. The trader will see the dwindling supply and raise his sell price (but apparently not his buy price). People will quit buying from him and look to buy from players. But since players use the Trader's selling price to set their price, they will in turn raise their prices. Now player prices are again "close" to trader prices so buyers will go back to the Trader. Repeat until 1 wood plank costs 500g and then tell us there is nothing wrong.

In such a scenario, players will initially be forced to go acquire their own supplies via adventuring or farming as they cannot afford to buy them anymore. Money ceases to have value since everything is inflated.

In comes bartering. Expect new WTT spams to appear where players that need material X start offering to trade X for Y.

My sentiment here... :/

noblepaladin · Jul 14, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Here's a tip for people to follow. Too often do people sell stuff to traders for low prices. Like minor runes for 25 gold. You should sell anything that is a minimum price to merchants! If the trader offers 1 gold for something and people continue to give it to them, they will keep offering 1 gold.

drizzt134 · Jul 14, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

Here's a tip for people to follow. Too often do people sell stuff to traders for low prices. Like minor runes for 25 gold. You should sell anything that is a minimum price to merchants! If the trader offers 1 gold for something and people continue to give it to them, they will keep offering 1 gold.

so what do u suggest? we drop our runes on the floor and run away? lol

drizzt134 · Jul 14, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

so here i agree with u actually a bit... they should change the minimum paid price algorith for merchants but other than that selling prices are normal.

Winterclaw · Jul 14, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Okay, some of you aren't going to like this, but I think the traders' current prices are actually a good thing. The first is, since they are buying so low, less money is pouring into the system. I think one of the reasons everything got so expensive (a sword for 50K-200K???) was because there was too much money in the system, people were too rich. This has another benefit, some people use the traders as marks for buying and selling. If I want to offload something, and the trader is given me nearly nil and I know that people aren't going to want to pay full trader price, I'll have to sell it cheap. Cheaper than the trader anyways. Money is now exchanging hand between the players and both sides benefit, I'm still getting more money than the trader and the other guy is getting a deal. Finally, this is good because if you do buy from a trader, he now acts as a money sink.

So in short: traders are for the desperate.

Lenwë Artanis Tinúviel · Jul 14, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiggDunc

its ridiculous

if they continue nerfing, im gonna NERF my account!

i used to be able to sell runes / weapons / whatever and make 50k plus a day, got up to 500k... now.. im spending my money and not able to sell stuff due to farming, and loot decrease.. and to play the material market is too risky now

WTF arena... stop taking the fun otta the game, were not all playin for PVP

DAMN IT

I Suport your coment it is ludacris!!! Some of us enjoy PVE!!!!